Haven't worked with Balthazar for a couple of days. Couldn't groom him as he was still sweating so just took the carrots out in the paddock and began. He was very good except we had lots of evasions. I tried the 'dancing' with him again. Overfaced and overwhelmed so he grazed. But that's okay. It's a process and as he trusts more he will evade less. He was a little bit pushy today and I pushed his nose away. It was almost a smack. Regretful. Didn't hit him but it was more than a push and less than a slap. Damn. He had that look in his eyes afterwards but was 'with' me again fairly quickly.
He is getting very good at mirroring, stepping back one two even three steps almost immediately, while he's still chewing his carrot in fact. One thing that was a little off-putting happened while I was walking away. He galloped toward me bucking and plunging. I've seen this in a video where the woman sent the horse off again. She wasn't worried about being trampled or struck. I'm not that confident yet. I sent him away with a whoosh of my arms then called him to me and gave him a carrot. We can make use of this I think.
I'd almost forgotten about head down but he didn't. He was pretty quick with it. Also tried to back him (with me in front) and for him to stay while I brought the carrot to him. He evaded after two goes. Don't know why he found that too much but we'll keep practicing.
The wwylm was interesting. I didn't reward unless he was beside me and I didn't reward if he had his head in my space. He mouthed my shoulder in his eagerness to get a carrot. I didn't react nor did I give a carrot. Rewarded for correct position. It was better.
Sunday, February 19, 2012
Wednesday, February 15, 2012
27
Mixed bag tonight. He was brilliant with wwylm on the right, staying right with me but on the left he tends to drift behind me so that he's almost walking on my heels. Even though I am holding the carrot at right angles to get him as far from me as possible, he just curves that long elegant neck around and takes it without shifting his body. It's something to work on, difficult because I can't turn around to see what position he's in, I can only judge from the angle of his neck...or feeling his hooves or chest. Still not a good thing when he's aroused.
He nickers almost constantly. Again he trotted over to meet me when I entered the paddock. We had a few evasions for I got enthusiastic and worked too long. But it was more playful tonight. Naturally. Not because I had to think about it. Was just so pleased he was pleased. Head down either prompt or with hesitation. DId some rapid fire c/t's for head down to try and implant the idea. He offers it when I'm not asking, along with backup.
Worked on having him back and stay back until I walked over with the treat, a matter of only a step. Half successful but as we've just started that I'm not concerned. Did have him back four or five steps so that was good. He had a little mug attempt, not quite touching but leaning in and sniffing. If I hadn't blocked or twisted away it would've got worse but at least he isn't as determined as before so there is steady improvement. The mirroring is getting better. Sometimes with very little hesitation. Tried tonight to introduce the first steps of 'playing', me trotting one side to the other in front of him to get him to change direction. Hopefully this will lead to a dance as I've seen on you tube.
I don't want to mix things up too much and confuse or overface him (and we did get those couple of evasions tonight) but I also don't want to drill either. We are covering the same ground with mirroring, wwylm from both sides, head down and a little back up but as he gets the idea I think it's a good idea to playfully introduce some other elements. Tried again to walk into his face with my hands at shoulder height to get him to yield. He kept backing up so I backed up with him so that I didn't lose my position at his face. When he side-stepped a tiny little step I jack potted. Tried again immediately and got the side step much faster, only one back up step so rewarded that too.
We almost stopped on an evasion but I returned to him and asked for a head down so that I could give him the last two carrots.
He nickers almost constantly. Again he trotted over to meet me when I entered the paddock. We had a few evasions for I got enthusiastic and worked too long. But it was more playful tonight. Naturally. Not because I had to think about it. Was just so pleased he was pleased. Head down either prompt or with hesitation. DId some rapid fire c/t's for head down to try and implant the idea. He offers it when I'm not asking, along with backup.
Worked on having him back and stay back until I walked over with the treat, a matter of only a step. Half successful but as we've just started that I'm not concerned. Did have him back four or five steps so that was good. He had a little mug attempt, not quite touching but leaning in and sniffing. If I hadn't blocked or twisted away it would've got worse but at least he isn't as determined as before so there is steady improvement. The mirroring is getting better. Sometimes with very little hesitation. Tried tonight to introduce the first steps of 'playing', me trotting one side to the other in front of him to get him to change direction. Hopefully this will lead to a dance as I've seen on you tube.
I don't want to mix things up too much and confuse or overface him (and we did get those couple of evasions tonight) but I also don't want to drill either. We are covering the same ground with mirroring, wwylm from both sides, head down and a little back up but as he gets the idea I think it's a good idea to playfully introduce some other elements. Tried again to walk into his face with my hands at shoulder height to get him to yield. He kept backing up so I backed up with him so that I didn't lose my position at his face. When he side-stepped a tiny little step I jack potted. Tried again immediately and got the side step much faster, only one back up step so rewarded that too.
We almost stopped on an evasion but I returned to him and asked for a head down so that I could give him the last two carrots.
Monday, February 13, 2012
26
Yesterday I wrote how nice it would be if Balthazar was the first to meet me at the gate. Today when he saw me at the gate, he trotted over nickering. That is a first. He's walked over with speed but never trotted. I am so happy. The session was great too. I had my energy up as before and he responded in kind. He did better with wwylm with him on my left. His head down was much better. Less hesitation, so much so that I waited until his nose was almost touching the ground before I clicked. May as well refine it now that he's getting it so well.
I think we've had some kind of breakthrough. Today he seemed more willing to play. When we had a break I didn't walk away rather I moved beside him and scratched his back. He did get a little too excited a couple of times and was a little too close with wwylm but I think we'll be okay. I also tried a little of walking into his space at his head with my hands at shoulder height to ask him to move sideways as the start of turn on the forehand and he did. Jackpotted for that. I know it's not shaping, that it wasn't training him as though he was a dolphin but he didn't seem to mind and he got a big reward. We may be able to move into playing, perhaps where I can even start to free lunge - sending him away and calling him back. I would love him to expend some of his excess energy in galloping and bucking and whatever when he's away from me free lunging.
We did some mirroring too. Very good. Three steps back with alacrity. Very little hesitation today - like he is really, finally, getting it.
Asked him to back with cue, something he already knew. He did it very well. Want to refine that so that I walk forward with the treat rather than him coming back to get it. Want him to stay where he is after backing until asked to come forward again. A kind of yo-yo affect. C/t for backing, c/t for staying, c/t for coming forward or perhaps c/t for backing and c/t for coming forward when asked although I think it would work better if he learned to stay before I c/t for coming back or he'll always be coming back. Should be easy to train as he does take note of my posture and I can make myself Big to keep him in position.
He did want to mug a couple of times but they are half-hearted. He doesn't touch me and as he doesn't get a treat until he's stopped I think it will slowly fade completely away. The mugging is already nothing like it was.
I suspect and hope that we can start to make real progress as he understands that this work is more like playing, that only good things come from it and it's fun to do. As he understands this we may have offered behaviours or things I can capture with c/t that will start him thinking. He's a bit reactive (especially with the stallion behaviour) so with him understanding that there will only be positive things or no thing but never a bad thing, he might be more open to learning and playing.
I think we've had some kind of breakthrough. Today he seemed more willing to play. When we had a break I didn't walk away rather I moved beside him and scratched his back. He did get a little too excited a couple of times and was a little too close with wwylm but I think we'll be okay. I also tried a little of walking into his space at his head with my hands at shoulder height to ask him to move sideways as the start of turn on the forehand and he did. Jackpotted for that. I know it's not shaping, that it wasn't training him as though he was a dolphin but he didn't seem to mind and he got a big reward. We may be able to move into playing, perhaps where I can even start to free lunge - sending him away and calling him back. I would love him to expend some of his excess energy in galloping and bucking and whatever when he's away from me free lunging.
We did some mirroring too. Very good. Three steps back with alacrity. Very little hesitation today - like he is really, finally, getting it.
Asked him to back with cue, something he already knew. He did it very well. Want to refine that so that I walk forward with the treat rather than him coming back to get it. Want him to stay where he is after backing until asked to come forward again. A kind of yo-yo affect. C/t for backing, c/t for staying, c/t for coming forward or perhaps c/t for backing and c/t for coming forward when asked although I think it would work better if he learned to stay before I c/t for coming back or he'll always be coming back. Should be easy to train as he does take note of my posture and I can make myself Big to keep him in position.
He did want to mug a couple of times but they are half-hearted. He doesn't touch me and as he doesn't get a treat until he's stopped I think it will slowly fade completely away. The mugging is already nothing like it was.
I suspect and hope that we can start to make real progress as he understands that this work is more like playing, that only good things come from it and it's fun to do. As he understands this we may have offered behaviours or things I can capture with c/t that will start him thinking. He's a bit reactive (especially with the stallion behaviour) so with him understanding that there will only be positive things or no thing but never a bad thing, he might be more open to learning and playing.
Saturday, February 11, 2012
25
Again had a session this morning. Big change on my part for I increased my energy by walking quickly around the circle or on a straight line. Consequently Balthazar mirrored my energy and my movements in a much more timely fashion. No mugging per se although he did curl his head around a couple of times when I asked for a mirrored backup. No problem however. Stallion behaviour non existent. He didn't even have time to drop much. We were walking much too fast. Even had a couple of trots. Now to keep working on the refinement of wwylm so that he remains at my shoulder at this quicker pace. I think it keeps him more interested. There isn't time to evade although I did leave him behind a couple of times before he caught up which may have been taking a breather for him. Still, it was a very good session. I only intended to use half my carrots this morning so there'd be enough for tonight but it was going so well I used them all.
I had to get him out of the paddock with the others using a halter. He's the only one who didn't raise his head and start walking toward me when I was at the gate. I look forward to the day when he is the first to meet me at the gate. It will happen.
When we finished he'd entered the paddock when the others were in the 'Jenny Craig' paddock so I used the halter to catch him again. Took him out and asked him to move out of my space as I turned in to him as we left the gate. Slow to do so but I rewarded when he did. He's very light on the halter leading but doesn't yet know to get out of my way when I move into his space. That too will come with time.
It was a very interesting session using this higher energy. When we eventually come to lunging at liberty I hope that he will play, turn, trot, canter, run away and run back. That would be terrific. At the very least I can see we have improved. Greatly improved and that's wonderful.
I had to get him out of the paddock with the others using a halter. He's the only one who didn't raise his head and start walking toward me when I was at the gate. I look forward to the day when he is the first to meet me at the gate. It will happen.
When we finished he'd entered the paddock when the others were in the 'Jenny Craig' paddock so I used the halter to catch him again. Took him out and asked him to move out of my space as I turned in to him as we left the gate. Slow to do so but I rewarded when he did. He's very light on the halter leading but doesn't yet know to get out of my way when I move into his space. That too will come with time.
It was a very interesting session using this higher energy. When we eventually come to lunging at liberty I hope that he will play, turn, trot, canter, run away and run back. That would be terrific. At the very least I can see we have improved. Greatly improved and that's wonderful.
24
Had two sessions today, one this morning and another this evening. This morning he was brilliant. I did work on refining the wwylm so that he was only rewarded when his head was beside my shoulder. Worked well. No mugging, no evasions. I did walk away frequently so that he wouldn't have to feel overwhelmed. He was staying with me and I could take a few steps before rewarding him as he stuck so well to the position. Also a few mirroring steps. He was stepping backwards more quickly, not so much hesitation. Even asked for two steps backwards and he was doing it as well. He still hesitates before putting his head down with a verbal cue but that will improve with time. It isn't a long hesitation but it's not immediate yet.
This afternoon wasn't quite as brilliant. Walked into the paddock and he followed immediately. He did attempt to mug three times. I blocked him for two and walked away the third. He never touched me but the intention was there. The wwylm wasn't quite as good as this morning. He does better with me on the left, not quite so sharp on the right. Again it will take time. The mirroring wasn't quite as good either. A little stallion behaviour, more than this morning but still a good session. Just have to remember how far we've come. At least I feel that he feels c/ting with me is a Good Thing. Even though I'm sure he evades because he is overwhelmed the evasions aren't so frequent, mostly because I walk away first but I also suspect that he is getting used to the clicker training and is starting to enjoy it for its own sake.
When we finished this afternoon I called him over. I was returning to the yards and he, knowing we'd finished or having an evasion, was grazing. He came over with a couple of stops to chew on a leg or bite at a fly and I jackpotted him for coming. Very pleased with both of us.
This afternoon wasn't quite as brilliant. Walked into the paddock and he followed immediately. He did attempt to mug three times. I blocked him for two and walked away the third. He never touched me but the intention was there. The wwylm wasn't quite as good as this morning. He does better with me on the left, not quite so sharp on the right. Again it will take time. The mirroring wasn't quite as good either. A little stallion behaviour, more than this morning but still a good session. Just have to remember how far we've come. At least I feel that he feels c/ting with me is a Good Thing. Even though I'm sure he evades because he is overwhelmed the evasions aren't so frequent, mostly because I walk away first but I also suspect that he is getting used to the clicker training and is starting to enjoy it for its own sake.
When we finished this afternoon I called him over. I was returning to the yards and he, knowing we'd finished or having an evasion, was grazing. He came over with a couple of stops to chew on a leg or bite at a fly and I jackpotted him for coming. Very pleased with both of us.
Friday, February 10, 2012
23
Day before yesterday I spent perhaps 3 minutes playing with Balthazar. Short and sweet. Today we probably worked for 10 minutes, perhaps longer. No mugging. No evasions. I walked away first and he followed. Walked out into the paddock and called him after grooming him thoroughly. He came and we started with wwylm, head down and some mirroring. He was very good. The wwylm was better, working well from either side. If he is this good next time I should probably start refining it so that I'm not luring him into position with the carrot but only c/ting when he is in position. I think he's familiar enough now with the concept to get that he has to stay at my shoulder. Once he has that we can start maneuvering so that he is doing shoulder in while wwylm.
He is improving with the head down, offering it even when not asked. He doesn't get a carrot for that. He didn't back as often today, perhaps because we were mostly working forward, walking about the circle I've made in the paddock. When I walked away from him - to give him a break so that he wouldn't evade - I'd cut across the circle so that we would have a change of direction in wwylm. It worked well for he would come up on the opposite side (except once when he came directly behind me but by holding the carrot out on the side I wanted him on, that wasn't a problem.
He did get a little excited but because of the frequent breaks it didn't get out of hand. There was a little burble of too much stallion behaviour but it was so quick and so quickly under control again that it didn't bother me. I think the breaks help him to keep things under control..
Our neighbour reiterated to Richard today that I was welcome to ride his land any time I wanted. It is so tempting to throw the saddle on and go. I miss riding the hills but I musn't rush things. We are nowhere near that stage. I could do it and Balthazar would be okay about it but I would much rather build a relationship where we enjoy our times together and it's fun for him too. I do need to get off my bum and work with him more than once a day. It doesn't take long and it would move things along if he knew that every time he saw me he has a good time. I keep thinking I must train him as though he is a dolphin, free shaping everything so that he never feels confined and it is his choice. Naturally it would be faster if I put him on a lead and lunged him and did all the exercises with him attached to me but I don't think it would ultimately work because it is his mind that I want to attach to not his head with a rope and halter.
He is improving with the head down, offering it even when not asked. He doesn't get a carrot for that. He didn't back as often today, perhaps because we were mostly working forward, walking about the circle I've made in the paddock. When I walked away from him - to give him a break so that he wouldn't evade - I'd cut across the circle so that we would have a change of direction in wwylm. It worked well for he would come up on the opposite side (except once when he came directly behind me but by holding the carrot out on the side I wanted him on, that wasn't a problem.
He did get a little excited but because of the frequent breaks it didn't get out of hand. There was a little burble of too much stallion behaviour but it was so quick and so quickly under control again that it didn't bother me. I think the breaks help him to keep things under control..
Our neighbour reiterated to Richard today that I was welcome to ride his land any time I wanted. It is so tempting to throw the saddle on and go. I miss riding the hills but I musn't rush things. We are nowhere near that stage. I could do it and Balthazar would be okay about it but I would much rather build a relationship where we enjoy our times together and it's fun for him too. I do need to get off my bum and work with him more than once a day. It doesn't take long and it would move things along if he knew that every time he saw me he has a good time. I keep thinking I must train him as though he is a dolphin, free shaping everything so that he never feels confined and it is his choice. Naturally it would be faster if I put him on a lead and lunged him and did all the exercises with him attached to me but I don't think it would ultimately work because it is his mind that I want to attach to not his head with a rope and halter.
Friday, February 3, 2012
22
Intention is everything. Animals are smart in ways we can't imagine. Balthazar must think I'm a frustrated school marm. I go in there with the set lesson plan and off we go. I should be wearing a lab coat or wear spectacles and have my hair in a bun (which I kind of do). Anyway. Didn't work with him yesterday because I got home too late. He was still locked in the stall when I went out so I went in with him and collected his feed tub to put away. He was still standing in the stall and I asked him to come using the 'come' hand motion I always use when I call him. He hadn't budged before then but he came when I asked. It was too mucky to work in the yards so I just asked for a couple of head down and then moved into the paddock.
He is definitely improving with the head down cue. Also improving with the wwylm except when he is on my left. He slipped over to the right and I didn't c/t so he came back to the left which was good. He tried to mug once (at the feed pouch) but I just blocked him so that was good too. The stallion behaviour was present but only verging on over the top so that was also good. He evaded once as did I. I didn't catch the signs the first time but did the second so that was also good. He was also quicker to mirror me, backing with less hesitation than before. Also good.
But the sentence at the beginning of this post about intention was made apparent at the end when we'd finished, the treat pouch was gone and I'd put out some pumpkin for the horses to eat. Balthazar doesn't like watermelon and he wasn't too sure about pumpkin either although he did try some in the end. I was standing on the other side of the gate. He left the pumpkin and came over to me. I scratched his face and neck as I often do and he pressed himself into the gate so that he could press into me, hanging his head over my back while I scratched him. He's never done that before. I continued to scratch his neck and then stepped back so I could lightly scratch his face. I blew in his nostrils and he stretched his muzzle out so we could *breathe* each other. It was lovely. It is the first time I have felt affection from him. I know he was getting scratched on places he can't do himself but it seemed more than that. Because I was out of 'teaching mode' and just hanging out with him, albeit on the other side of the gate, the feeling was one of friendship rather than teacher/student.
Now I need to bring that same intention, that friendly intention, rather than teacher intention, to our sessions together. It always comes back to me. The problems and challenges I have with horses (or birds, cats, dogs and husband even) is not what they do but how I *do* to them, how I react or act towards them. What my INTENTION is.
He is definitely improving with the head down cue. Also improving with the wwylm except when he is on my left. He slipped over to the right and I didn't c/t so he came back to the left which was good. He tried to mug once (at the feed pouch) but I just blocked him so that was good too. The stallion behaviour was present but only verging on over the top so that was also good. He evaded once as did I. I didn't catch the signs the first time but did the second so that was also good. He was also quicker to mirror me, backing with less hesitation than before. Also good.
But the sentence at the beginning of this post about intention was made apparent at the end when we'd finished, the treat pouch was gone and I'd put out some pumpkin for the horses to eat. Balthazar doesn't like watermelon and he wasn't too sure about pumpkin either although he did try some in the end. I was standing on the other side of the gate. He left the pumpkin and came over to me. I scratched his face and neck as I often do and he pressed himself into the gate so that he could press into me, hanging his head over my back while I scratched him. He's never done that before. I continued to scratch his neck and then stepped back so I could lightly scratch his face. I blew in his nostrils and he stretched his muzzle out so we could *breathe* each other. It was lovely. It is the first time I have felt affection from him. I know he was getting scratched on places he can't do himself but it seemed more than that. Because I was out of 'teaching mode' and just hanging out with him, albeit on the other side of the gate, the feeling was one of friendship rather than teacher/student.
Now I need to bring that same intention, that friendly intention, rather than teacher intention, to our sessions together. It always comes back to me. The problems and challenges I have with horses (or birds, cats, dogs and husband even) is not what they do but how I *do* to them, how I react or act towards them. What my INTENTION is.
Wednesday, February 1, 2012
21
Sessions deteriorate when we haven't had them for awhile. It's been two or three days. Initially I was pleased when I saw him standing at the gate nickering for me. Wow, he likes me! Nah, he likes the carrots. Groomed him thoroughly. It's been so hot and sultry that he was streaked with sweat mixed with dirt. His mane and forelock were sticky with cobwebs. He looked much better afterwards. It was nice to see the sheen come back on some of his coat. His spine and back are bleached with the sun but he gleams elsewhere.
So finished grooming and started the session. At least he didn't attack as he did the last time we had a break. He knew. I asked for head down. We worked on head down quite a bit. I want him to know the verbal cue so that there is no hesitation. He did okay. Not terrific but not bad. There was heightened stallion behaviour today. He even had a little stallion tantrum as before which I ignored. Just went on as usual. Notice that when he gets overexcited he sometimes initiates the break, the evasion. Like he can't handle it and knows if he doesn't stop something bad will happen - and not necessarily to him. Some of the evasions were quite long. I initiated some too when he got too mouthy - yes, we're back to mugging a bit, not like before, slobbering all over my person but getting a little grabby with the taking of the treats and if I don't deliver them quickly enough than he is shoving his muzzle in my space. So there is improvement there. Must remember that. It wasn't rgR long ago he was drooling all over me.
We also worked on mirroring and wwylm. He is catching on to the mirroring. I want him to walk beside me, at my shoulder so that eventually I can place his head in front of me so that he is doing a kind of shoulder in. But that's a LONG way off. There are moments when he is walking beside me, with me, and I'm c/ting all the time and then a few times when I can put a tiny bit of duration in and he's still with me. But it's sloppy and needs refinement. The excitement is the thing. When he's that excited he can't think and when he's that excited, to be honest, neither can I. I'm giving him treats because I want him to want this but also to keep him from turning into me and mugging.
I did growl at him once when his muzzle grazed my arm. Also when grooming, he still attempts to nip. It's not a bite, he's only grabbing with his lips but I'm unsure how to handle it. At the moment I'm only shoving his nose away. I don't want to use an adversive. I don't want to see his ears pinned again and lose that fragile trust that blooms and fades so easily with him.
Today was okay but lacked consistency, delicacy and timing. I need to slow down more than he does. One time when he evaded I waited and then decided, as it had gone on for so long, that I may as well end the session even though it wasn't on a good note. He came trotting to me. Which reminds me that when I left the yards, he was grazing. I called him and he walked with animation to meet me. That was good.
He's such a lovely horse. I don't know that I will ever get that 'invitation to ride' that I would like so much. We don't seem to make much progress but I suppose we are. It's just terribly slow which in a way is a good thing because it teaches me to slow down. I've always been too impatient and clicker training, if it's going to work, must needs be done with care and lots of patience and time.
So finished grooming and started the session. At least he didn't attack as he did the last time we had a break. He knew. I asked for head down. We worked on head down quite a bit. I want him to know the verbal cue so that there is no hesitation. He did okay. Not terrific but not bad. There was heightened stallion behaviour today. He even had a little stallion tantrum as before which I ignored. Just went on as usual. Notice that when he gets overexcited he sometimes initiates the break, the evasion. Like he can't handle it and knows if he doesn't stop something bad will happen - and not necessarily to him. Some of the evasions were quite long. I initiated some too when he got too mouthy - yes, we're back to mugging a bit, not like before, slobbering all over my person but getting a little grabby with the taking of the treats and if I don't deliver them quickly enough than he is shoving his muzzle in my space. So there is improvement there. Must remember that. It wasn't rgR long ago he was drooling all over me.
We also worked on mirroring and wwylm. He is catching on to the mirroring. I want him to walk beside me, at my shoulder so that eventually I can place his head in front of me so that he is doing a kind of shoulder in. But that's a LONG way off. There are moments when he is walking beside me, with me, and I'm c/ting all the time and then a few times when I can put a tiny bit of duration in and he's still with me. But it's sloppy and needs refinement. The excitement is the thing. When he's that excited he can't think and when he's that excited, to be honest, neither can I. I'm giving him treats because I want him to want this but also to keep him from turning into me and mugging.
I did growl at him once when his muzzle grazed my arm. Also when grooming, he still attempts to nip. It's not a bite, he's only grabbing with his lips but I'm unsure how to handle it. At the moment I'm only shoving his nose away. I don't want to use an adversive. I don't want to see his ears pinned again and lose that fragile trust that blooms and fades so easily with him.
Today was okay but lacked consistency, delicacy and timing. I need to slow down more than he does. One time when he evaded I waited and then decided, as it had gone on for so long, that I may as well end the session even though it wasn't on a good note. He came trotting to me. Which reminds me that when I left the yards, he was grazing. I called him and he walked with animation to meet me. That was good.
He's such a lovely horse. I don't know that I will ever get that 'invitation to ride' that I would like so much. We don't seem to make much progress but I suppose we are. It's just terribly slow which in a way is a good thing because it teaches me to slow down. I've always been too impatient and clicker training, if it's going to work, must needs be done with care and lots of patience and time.
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